Financial Ombudsman Letter
I had originally intended not to write this letter to you, as I truly worried it would
be out of vindictiveness or spite, as I was spitting feathers over this whole episode.
Also however, having reflected for some months over the reasons for this sad state
of affairs, I was still undecided whether to pursue any viable course of
litigation, and indeed whether the further demands on my health and sanity
were even worth the effort.
I think on balance I would have left it at that, I was pretty much exhausted by the
whole affair, and these are very big wheels with which to be crushed.
So I took the first step in eventually disentangling myself from them, after 26
years from a little savings account, in setting up an automated swap to Halifax,
whilst retaining my current account at theirs, mainly for fear of that being
summarily obliterated, not without substance it seems given what transpired.
Here follows an email from me, a letter in reply, and my email back.
It seems that even in leaving there was to be a sting in the tail.
I have removed the signatory from the letter as it is the institution that
is at core issue, and its practices, not its actual employees.
I feel they are not laying down a proper customer relations attitude,
and it is mainly for future and other present customers I write, as I
am under no delusions I have little chance of any recompense from
such a megalith of intransigence, even given proper support via
the official ombudsman, I fear he too will be deemed unimportant
and just another fly to swat in their continual march towards
total customer domination and exploitation with no thought
of these being real people with real problems and real grievances,
which when aired are summarily ignored.
Below is the current thread of conversation.
After that there is a link to the monolithic page of total financial
disasters which have occurred in the last 14 months, and which I
should try to précis, or cut into viable chunks, but which currently
are depressing to revisit in order to do so. I hope you will therefore
understand their somewhat jumbled form, I was very far
down the route to despair and seething when they were
originally written.
Im a recovering dire alcoholic, which they know, and it has not been easy to
keep a level head and not simply reach for a bottle through all of this,
wheras others in the same position might well slip back.
As I say, mainly it is for others I write, as I will probably only get
further unnecessary stress for my pains in bothering to write this
for my own just rewards.
My partners name has been removed, as has their representatives at every stage,
I have no desire to implicate or involve anyone else in this affair, and indeed on
a person to actual person basis have been well served. It is the rules, and their application
and attitude from above which need addressing, and the culture of gleaning
the maximum profit from a loyal customer base by any means possible,
whilst retaining draconian penalties, and all of this run by a seemingly
omnipotent computer, which even senior managers cannot overrule.
I feel genuinely sorry for their staff, trying to service ever increasing
computer driven demand, where no real provision has been made to
adequately staff and service this demand, and who have to try and
bear the brunt of valid customer wrath without ever having
personally done anything other than their best efforts.
In this they are being treated no differently than
the customer base they are ordered to quell,
and whose disquiet must be in similar
vein to those irate customers.
Email number one, November 3rd 2005. 1. I moved from them to Halifax.
2. Hiatus occurs unknown to me where neither is paying direct debits until full
swap over achieved.
3. They point out my direct debit at Halifax
will not come into force until after payment due slap bang in the middle
of hiatus has passed, and that their own
direct debit sadly got frozen before paying out this one, though they
should have paid the last one before Halifax took over paying it, which
Halifax have religiously done since.
Could I pay the interim payment by credit card. Which I did,
that day, also paying my partners by credit card at the same time, both
loans sitting on same joint account at the time.
This phone conversation was instigated from me phoning them to query why
my direct debit, and my partners, had not been
actioned as per usual, not them contacting me to say there was a problem.
I paid on the dot via credit card.
4. Their computer flags us both up on Experion as bad payers even though it
is their fault that the direct debit was not paid and I even paid by credit card
over the phone, something I am reluctant to do security wise and forced on
me by them not paying the last direct debit themselves before changeover.
5. Hence my partner and I have the following references on Experion, to whit
There followed here two experion records, as below without grid.
This disturbs me as well
because it only shows two months details on an account that I have paid flawlessly for 20 months since inception at feb 04, so it looks like ive only paid two months and one of them is late, wheras I have paid 20 months and the error is yours. Sad I had to leave after 26 years but with events like this happening all the while for 14 months you begin to see why.
| MR MALCOLM JAMES PUGH 36, BELMONT ROAD, REDNAL, WEST MIDLANDS, B45 9LW |
||
| Date of birth: | 20 July 1952 | |
| Company name: | Them | |
| Account type: | Loan | |
| Started: | 23 02 2004 | |
| Current Balance: | £10,664 | |
| Repayment Period: | Monthly Payment £200 over 84months | |
| File updated for period to: | 16 10 2005 | |
My partners is virtually identical and was put forward as well at the same time.
My partner is if anything more livid than I am, that takes some doing at present. She has never owed a shilling out of place ever.
Yours Sincerely,
Malcolm Pugh.
It may amuse to note that my Halifax credit card payment from them took 11 days electronically to reach Halifax, who flagged me a late payer on Experion, so ironically having moved to avoid Experion flags, I got one from Halifax on joining. Electronic transfers seem to take an age at times, not just confined to them but globally.
I think ALL the big lenders are hell bent on producing absolute maximum demand for product without much credence being given how to service it, then when inevitable errors creep in, absolve themselves from any blame or redress. You and Keith steadily put back flags to their rightful true not false setting on Experion, but that does not redress the time, money, frustration and stress involved at the customer end with them, pretty much all of them, not just they alone.
Malcolm Pugh.
Letter received November 17th 2005
page 2.
It perhaps should be noted that is them paying back to themselves, failing, and then flagging me for
failure to pay. An interesting concept, especially as to them it is actually Halifax are at fault.
What is more insidious, leaving them with a bad flag, and due to their taking 11 days
to pay an electronic transfer to my Halifax card, join Halifax with a bad flag their end. If you
did not know better it would seem like spite. But it is probably just simply their endemic ineptitude again.
Either way it is hardly helpful, which is what after all they are supposed to be.
Email back in response, on November 18th 2005, I await reply.
Thank you for thoroughly investigating the problem. I am sure with your level of expertise you are right technically, however morally and common sense wise, it seems a little draconian to bad flag someone who has explicitly rung in to ask why he has not been debited, of his own volition, and then unhesitatingly paid on the spot by credit card. That hardly in essence constitutes a desire not to pay or to be late, indeed it shows the customer is aware of the possibility of error and moved as swiftly forward as humanly possible to forestall this, successfully, in fact was thanked for my prompt attention to the potential shortfall on phone, then flagged as bad and late payer on Experion.
I appreciate you have no way of knowing the background to all this, in that it took me 14 months to effect a clean record on Experion due to erroneous bad flags, successfully removed in the past, but which caused great trauma, so much that I moved main accounting elsewhere after 26 years with them, albeit retaining my account with them as well.
I have no stomach for any more arbitration on this point, I find that its utterly depressing that common sense and fair play do not seem to figure in the equation, and so for now I will move on to my other initial query, mentioned explicitly on my last email to yourself, which was in the format of a clearer explanatory picture of my problems, to whit the loss of my history on this loan, on Experion.
They have en masse blanket dropped all my data onto Experion, and managed very efficiently to apply their new bad flag to it without pausing for breath, however if you refer back to my previous email it was somewhat deficient in the number of months reflected in the recorded history that I had paid.
The loan was taken out February 2004, some 20 months ago. Yet the record shows two months payments only, one of which flagged in yellow for late payment as previously delineated.
If we are in the realms of rules are rigid rules and no give and take, perhaps you could see to it that this erroneous record, first mentioned 3rd November 2005, is accurately amended to read with full 20 months green flags to correlate with the start and end dates and flawless payments, both on mine and my partners loans.
I reiterate the original data and request below.
I reiterated this.
The law states a record of Experion once queried is to be fixed within 28 days of original query, and we are thus already into day 15 of this, today being the 18th of November.
I was going to let sleeping dogs lie if the flag had been removed in good faith and with good will, as an infringement of the rules but with no intent or malice, however given this inflexible position on the error flag it seems only fair to balance its continued presence with a complete history of the loan to date in its entirety which will go some way to ameliorating the Experion scoring due to the bad flags presence.
I am sure you will agree on the Experion data below, their data is in fact deficient and erroneous in this particular instance, and perhaps apology for this slight on my consumer credit rating, due to an inaccurate computer download obliterating accurate data, is truly warranted.
I should point out off the record that I appreciate you are operating within strict confines of latitude in these matters, and consider your response to have been professional and succinct, also that I have no problem whatsoever in any aspect of how you have dealt with me or are continuing to deal with me.
Also off the record, as reflection on this affair,
It is plainly obvious that I have tried to be diligent, honest and pay up front, yet the system does not allow any lassitude on my part, yet the same system dumps reams of data onto Experion of which some obliterates perfectly valid history for perfectly valid months of a loan, this credit history built up by months on end of pristine payment, and I am expected to live with that even assuming I spot straight away its occurrence, as no message is sent to customers saying their Experion records are being vastly changed.
In any event, I reiterate the original data sent on the 3rd of November and await your reply. I am genuinely heartily tired of constantly wading backwards through treacle where Experion records are concerned, it gets very wearing.
Could you also explain why this explicit request has not been addressed or actioned to date, and why I am having to ask the same question and query again fifteen days on.
ORIGINAL DATA REITERATED HERE.
Data off Experion as above resent.
This clearly shows a scant two month history of a 20 month account.
I should point out it is only when the data appears in its correct format on Experion that the issue will be deemed resolved, and they can take a while to action your request. As there are only 13 days left before litigation becomes an option, I felt that it was only fair to point this out. Its a bit like sending money via electronic transfer but it being your fault and not theirs if it takes eleven days, as was recently the case with their transfer to a Halifax card.
Thanks for your letter, I had hoped for an amicable solution for once, and am saddened and somewhat low this has proved not to be the case, it seems only a matter of time to me before the public desert the high street lenders in droves and move to internet or phone lenders, given the inflexibility and rigidness of the system and the harsh penalties and degrading of credit histories being actioned.
I for one am simply fed up with continually having to check everything on an almost daily basis to ensure no errors have crept in overnight, and no erroneous charges have been levied, and all direct debits have been successfully set up.
I appreciate none of foregoing is your own personal fault, and you are only the instrument and not the instigator of an insane, unbending system.
Yours sincerely,
Malcolm Pugh.
Astonishingly I have had this in reply, which I enclose with my reply. this on November 24th 2005.
Dear Mr Pugh Re. Details held with Experian. Thank you very much for your e-mail of 18 November about the Experian note relating to your loan with us. I understand that you are concerned that the note refers only to the last two months of your loan, ignoring the 20 previous months. I have spoken with Experian to ascertain why the records for your loan extend back by only 2 months. They inform me that we have only recently begun sharing information of this nature with them. In our past, we would only advise Experian of adverse information, as opposed to all the previous payments that may have been made flawlessly. They advise that if you are concerned about this, you can send them a Notice of Correction. Essentially, this would be a statement informing them of your previous good conduct regarding the loan payments. This would then be held on your file and made known to any companies conducting a credit search. They would simply then be able to confirm this with us and take this into account when making any credit decisions. I did query with them as to whether this Notice of Correction should come from us or you and they confirm that this would have to be sent by the customer. Whilst I appreciate that this may not necessarily be the response you were looking for, I hope that I have been able to provide a possible way forward. Yours sincerely.
They Experian in fact referred me to these guys as the originator. You have to understand here, there WERE 20 months of pristine records, they have been overwritten by error on their part. You may be unaware, but once a notice of correction is put on an account, then that account ceases to have much validity to a credit search. A notice of correction is only there so as I, being the person with the problem, contact YOU, being the firm causing the problem, directly to sort it out. That is certainly not the answer I ever expected, if as senior systems programmer as originally the case, overwrote valid 20 months of history with other less valid data, I might hold my hand up to a mistake made, and put it right instead of swearing no knowledge and no culpability. Experian have advised me to get you to fix this data, they cannot ask on my behalf. That is poor in the extreme that my Experian file can be ruined and then you deny any culpability for doing it. Can you please get my data right for this erroneous entry which has overwritten a perfectly valid loan history. I ask yet again for this to be sorted and send onwards a copy of this email and your doc file to Experion. Yours Sincerely, Malcolm Pugh.
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